Thanks, Shelbo

is Bausch & Lomb Advanced Eye Relief Eye Wash it comes in a squeeze bottle and an eye cup to cover your eye to wash them out. I don't like the eye cup--cuz I end up wearing most of the solution.

Maybe this isn't what you're looking for, but it is still good stuff.

The vast majority of eye drops out there have a preservative in them to keep them sterile. Sterile products are very impt because the eye is sensitive to micro-organisms.

Not everyone with chem sensitivity will react to the minute amt of preservative, but some of us do.

You can get some products in individual little plastic squeeze tubes -- preservative free. But quite spendy, compared to bottled forms.

Unfortunately it is possible to react to the methylcellulose used to thicken eye drops -- which is what happened to me after a number of years.

So I am left with making homemade sterile saline eye drops, which must be made daily -- a pain. The only other thing I can tolerate is Nature's Tears eye mist, which is essentially a sterile saline, preservative-free, in a low-pressure mist form. It works, but only for a few minutes at a time when my eyes are bad. It's also quite expensive -- I can easily go through a $14 pkg in 3 days.

The most important thing I learned during my last hellish bouts of autoimmune scleritis (on top of the Sjogreny severe dry eyes) was PREVENTATIVE measures. If you haven't gotten into those, I highly recommend them.

Best wishes.

Thanks for replying SnooZQ.... May I ask how you know it was the methyl cellulose which you reacted to? I'm just interested in how you found this out... Did you have tests or something... I'd just love to know how you know.... I'm always interested in this... I never know how people KNOW....I mean, how on earth they can pinpoint when there are, say, 10 ingredients in a drop?
Did the drops start to make your eyes hurt or itch...?

I'm really hoping it's not the drops I use as I am so reliant on them... :( The drops I use are 1% methycellulose but the co. does a 0.25% methylcellulose drop (which is obviously 75% less) Do you think it could be tolerable at lower levels? Or is it out completely?

I had heard of Nature's Mist... thanks for passing that on. I'm in the UK so they won't be easy to find but I'll try.

Could I ask how you make your own drops? How you prepare and apply them...what with? I mean, they have to be sterile, don't they, as you said? I wouldn't want to get an infection... If it turns out the drops are the problem (which I'm praying they aren't) I'm wondering how I'll address my severe dry eye problem/ ocular rosacea... :( I think I migh have Sjorgens too - the test was on the cusp.... I was supposed to get re-tested several months on but didn't.

Lastly, (and sorry about all these questions) can I ask what you mean by preventative measures...you say you highly recommend them but I don't know what you mean?

I'd really appreciate any further advice you can offer...I hope you see this! And, many thanks again :) Shelbo



<br><br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 03/31/2009</i>] <br><br>[<i>This Message was Edited on 03/31/2009</i>]

[This Message was Edited on 03/31/2009]

I went through a number of eyedrops while under care of an opthalmologist. Dry eyes were WORSE on the drops. When I was finally on those little expensive single-use preservative-free tubes, & still reacting, doc said likely it was the methylcellulose -- that's pretty much all there was left to react to besides water & salt.

Now, it may be that the MC was more of an irritant rather than it being a chemical intolerance. Interesting that you noticed some products have much less of it than others.

I don't know whether or not I would tolerate the 0.25% MC drops. If it's an irritation thing, probably less is better. But if it is a chemical intolerance, again -- I'm not totally sure of my threshold -- and everyone does have a unique threshold for these intolerances.

Homemade eye drops are a pain in the butt to prepare precisely for the reason you indicated. Everything used in preparation must be as close to sterile as you can get in a home setting. I have a couple of plastic dropper bottles I've saved over the years that do OK when I boil them. MANY squeeze bottles just deform when you try to boil them. I purchase specially filtered, UV treated water, then boil & cool again just before making the drops. For saline I use sea salt, noniodized, 1/8th tsp. to 1/2 cup water. Of course 1/2 cup is more than I need most days, but my measuring tools for this amt are, again, boilable.

Work surfaces, anything you set your measuring spoon or bottle top or dropper down on, must be very clean -- I prefer using H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to clean surfaces rather than bleach, which makes me sick.

Preventative Measures:
1) If you are in an environment with forced-air heat or air-conditioning, position your face at a distance from the airstream. Especially important for work and sleep.

2) Get a pair of wrap-around eye safety googles, the kind that are enclosed around the sides as well as at the top. When you are cleaning, vacuuming, gardening, outside in rain/wind/hail/snow/pollen/smoke, wear the glasses to protect your eyes. If you wear eyeglasses, make sure your safety goggles are large enough to fit over your glasses so that when you are driving & open the window,

3) Use the safety goggles when cooking, frying, baking. Also when engaging in any sort of craft activity or exercise where moving air is created, or where pressurized products are in use.

4) Get a pair of shaded wrap-around glasses, the sort that are used after eye surgery, for sunny weather in lieu of regular shades.

5) For those who are menopausal, if you are able to tolerate bioidentical hormones, these can be helpful for moisture -- incl. eye moisture

6) A daily dose of a gram or so of high quality EPA fish oil helps dry eye. Use a brand that has been lab-tested for solvent levels.

I've found these tips, from my ophthalmologist, to be very helpful. I've been amazed at what collects on the surface of the safety goggles as I go about everyday household & cooking duties.

Sorry if this is commonsense to you. I suffered for many years in circumstances where I could have had much less searing eye pain had I simply used preventive measures.

Best wishes.

Thanks so much...
Can I ask? When you say in your last message....

"Homemade eye drops are a pain in the butt to prepare precisely for the reason you indicated. Everything used in preparation must be as close to sterile as you can get in a home setting. I have a couple of plastic dropper bottles I've saved over the years that do OK when I boil them. MANY squeeze bottles just deform when you try to boil them. I purchase specially filtered, UV treated water, then boil & cool again just before making the drops. For saline I use sea salt, noniodized, 1/8th tsp. to 1/2 cup water. Of course 1/2 cup is more than I need most days, but my measuring tools for this amt are, again, boilable.

Work surfaces, anything you set your measuring spoon or bottle top or dropper down on, must be very clean -- I prefer using H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to clean surfaces rather than bleach, which makes me sick."


...where do you buy all these materials ie... the squeezy bottles, the special water and the hydrogen peroxide? I am in the UK and have no idea how I would lay my hands on any of these things...I have never even heard of filtered, UV treated water or nonionized salt... I haven't got a clue how you use hydrogen peroxide.... Oh boy, this is all new to me... I'm a smidgeon overwhelmed....

I emailed the company yesterday who makes the drops I use and asked if the ingredients had changed and I got an email back saying that the formula was unchanged...
I could see, though, that the ingredients are in a different order but my SO pointed out that they are now in alphabetical order...so then I assumed then that the ingredients are the same but now listed alphabetically BUT I thought I'd better make sure (to be safe) so I sent an email in reply asking her if I could trouble her further to tell me why the list was in a different order...
I got this very curt and (imo not very nice) reply... There was no Dear or Regards....even though my correspondence was v. polite (almost apologetic).... all she wrote was 'The management felt it made a better read' I've been pretty down about it...she is the coordinator for consumer and professional affairs.... I'm now reluctant to write and ask her what she means...maybe she thought I was being a pain or something... :( All I want, as a consumer, is the truth without feeling I'm doing something wrong..... I have a friend in the States who is calling them for me to see if she can get to the bottom of this without talking to this woman... she left a message with them but no reply as yet... Anyhow, I digress...apologies... :)

Thanks so much for all your tips....they are great... I will look into getting some of those goggles...beats being in pain, I guess... I will do some internet searching tonight...here in the UK there doesn't seem to be as much access to stuff like this, as far as I know...The States is well ahead of us in terms of these kinds of product...
I did see these things on the US site amazon.com .... you might be interested yourself... They are goggles you sleep in...you insert these wet things into them and they are supposed to keep your eyes moist overnight... if I can find a link I'll let you know... they may be useful to you since they only use water...

On my searches last night I also came across a product called Nature's Tears hydrating mist....it is touted as a chemical-free alternative to drops... You spray it on...I know you can get that at drugstore.com ..there are reviews....15 of them...I was put off a little by the last review though - the woman reacted but I believe the only ingredient is a water that is identical to the ph of tears....can't recall the technical blurb... thought I'd pass that on... I might try to get hold of some of those...I really can't see how I'll get my hands on the ingredients I'd need to make my own drops here in the UK.... I guess if all else fails though I can try! :)
I'm not menopausal - I'm only 34 but I do think I have some hormonal disturbance...may be worth checking out...I have very dry eyes and skin, and oddly if I don't wash and moisturise my face with certain products by a certain time every day I feel so ill (a nightmare as my cleanser and moisturiser have been discontinued....you might have read my messages here asking for facial cleanser/ moisturisers for MCS...still haven't found replacements but thankfully have a little left of both of the ones I tolerate)...anyhow, it's as if my skin and eyes will not produce moisture of their own at all...I had suspected Sjorgens but the test was inconclusive and I don't have the super dry mouth....I'm not sure what's going on with me...it's like my body will only react ok with stuff I have been using for years ... If I try to introduce anything new (which I need to to find replacement skincare ... I have rosacea and ocular rosacea too) all hell breaks loose...suppose it's all part of these DDs...will just have to keep pegging away at it...

I'm really happy to say I am already taking fish oil but thanks anyway for the heads-up :) ...I'd been taking Carlson's but I've just v. recently switched to Nordic Naturals to see if there is any more benefit with this brand..didn't see too much improvement with Carlson's.. I'm glad I'm doing something right :) I am taking flaxseed oil too but I just read long-term use can suppress thyroid function so I may be giving that a break...
Anyhow, thanks so much for everything... I appreciate all your advice and kindness..sorry for going on so much.... Shell :)

Thanks for the tip on the NightTime goggles. I'll have to ck those out.

Oops, when I told you I used Nature's Mist, it actually is called Nature's Tears EyeMist. So you got it right.


So very sorry that I overwhelmed you. No need to be! Try the things I've said that make sense to you & are easy to do.

For protective goggles, look for safety glasses used in chemistry labs. If you have a college nearby with a chemistry dept., chances are, safety goggles will be sold in the campus bookstore. At least, they are here in the US. You can also sometimes get good safety glasses in hardware/home improvement sections of dept. stores here in the USA. Sorry, I haven't been overseas so I can't really direct you where to shop in the UK. If you can order off of amazon, put "safety glasses" into the search there & you will bring up a page showing all sorts of safety goggles/glasses.

For post-op type full wrap eye shades, you can buy them new here at the ophtalmologists, run about $20. OR you can look for them at rummage sales, sometimes they're scratched but often they're fine. People who've had cataract surgery only need to use them for a few weeks post-op.

The squeezy bottles that didn't disintegrate when I boiled them were found through trial & error. It would be more straightforward to purchase a small glass bottle with glass eye dropper from a pharmacist. These are easily boilable. However, I have arthritis & sometimes my finger co-ordination isn't perfect. I'd hate to scratch my eye with a glass dropper. So I do the other.

FWIW I think both Nordic & Carlsons are fine products. Have used them both myself, but I can't tolerate many of the "cheap" fish oils.

I meant to say, nonIODIZED salt. Most table salt in the USA is fortified with iodine. Not sure if that is the case in the UK. The point is, you need just a tiny bit of **plain** salt in homemade eye drops so that they do not sting. Our tears are a little salty.

Keep your eyes open for specially filtered water. Check health food stores. Even a gallon of distilled water (available here in most grocery stores) should be good to use, if boiled & cooled before you make your drops.

Here in the USA, hydrogen peroxide 3% is available at most dept. stores, even grocery stores, in the first aid section. It's pretty cheap, about $1 for 16 oz. People use it on cuts and scrapes, as an antiseptic. I suggested it to use on your work surface before you lay down your boiled tools for making eye drops. Just pour it out over the area of one square foot of counter top, let it sit for a few minutes, then wipe it dry with a fresh wad of paper towel. You might want to try it on an inconspicuous spot of your countertop first, if you have a special surface. I have a cheap sort of laminate, but I'm not sure how a wooden or stone countertop would react. Even 3% H2O2 can have a mild bleaching action.

Sorry to hear about your grief with your eyedrops seeming to have changed somehow. I hate it when that happens.

On the topic of facial moisturizers, have you tried using just plain old oil? Like olive oil, or pure coconut oil, or macadamia nut oil? Not sure if they would flare your rosacea, sorry, no experience with that.

One other thought ... you might check the infant care sections of stores you frequent to see if there is a nonpreservative type saline solution available. In years past we could get that here, but the brand I used was discontinued. Moms use baby saline to help unstuff little noses when kids have colds. Works well for that.

Take care!

Thanks so much for all the wonderful advice!! It was so kind of you to go to so much trouble! :) Seems there's a fair bit I can do - that's quite reassuring...
May I ask: if you need to use drops several times a day (as I do) can you refrigerate the batch you have made (for the day?) or do you have to start from scratch each time you want to put drops in...?

I will get my SO to look for saline solution...that might be a good addition to my arsenal...

I'll keep going with the fish oil....I'm taking flaxseed oil too but I've heard that this can depress the thyroid (yikes!) I was taking GLA (in borage for a time and then in EPO) to help with tear production but I found I felt worse (I believe the oils that contain GLA are the omega 6 oils too which we need to reduce....I might be wrong)

Thanks for the tip about the oils...is this what you use to cleanse and moisturise your face? I find I don't get on with oils by themselves....they tend to make my rosacea more irritated and dry (oddly).. I do have a cleanser/ eye cleanser and moisturiser I can use but they are both discontinued so the hunt is on for replacments that my ridiculously sensitive skin/ system can tolerate... a trigger in itself..so stress-inducing! Do you have MCS yourself Snooz?
I have this weird thing whereby if I don't wash and moisturise my complexion with the above cleanser and moisturiser by a certain time in the day I feel so ill (like my head is turning into a pressure cooker....very odd and disturbing)... I may ask the MCS board about it but I've tried many of the items rec'd here by way of cleansers/ moisturisers and no success...

Anyhow, sorry for rambling on again! BTW, you didn't overwhelm me...I am incredibly grateful for all your wonderful advice....it's very very kind of you to go to such lengths to explain everything to me..

I've been reading a very good book I heard about here: Sugarettes... It's a real eye-opener...I'm seriously considering trying his eating plan out..no easy task when you're a sugar addict like me! If it helps with any of my symptoms I'll be sure to report back! :)

Thanks for all your help....I am sorry I took so long to get back...I have been feeling really poorly the last few days....

Shelbo :)

I make fresh eye drops each morning & keep them refrigerated. Take care not to let the dropper contact your skin, eyelashes, or any nonsterile surface. It may be OK to use it a day or 2 longer, I'm just not sure. But I've had so many nasty eye infections over the yrs. (NOT due to my eyedrops) that I am extra careful.

My ophthalmologist tells me that for my level of dryness, using plain saline only, it should be instilled 4 - 5 times per hour, all the waking day. I've never been able to follow that schedule for more than an hour or two at a time. I gotta have a life!

Yes I do have MCS however I have been improving on that front. And I never did have it to the severity of some people, who are essentially homebound due to the MCS. Some of my main inhalant problems are petroleum-based products & chlorine/bleachy products. I use a shower filter to take out chlorine. I also have very sensitive skin & have to go by trial & error to find what works.

I use primarily water to cleanse my face. Don't use any makeup, any more. When my face is very irritated dry, I will use organic macadamia nut oil at night time. It takes a long time to absorb. I find the organic oils are less irritating for me -- am solvent sensitive.

For the rest of my extremely dry body skin, I use cheaper oils like olive oil, or cocoa butter, or coconut oil. Whatever I can find that's organic & on sale.

The oil I regularly use on my face is pure squalene, from Japan. I like the squalene because it penetrates quickly. It's also a natural component of healthy human skin.

Good luck.

Thanks so much for all your wonderful advice... :)
My condition is complicated by a nasty case of rosacea (and ocular rosacea) so it's especially hard to find facial skincare...I don't do too well with plain oils, organic or not, but I really appreciate your advice on that front :)
Thanks for the eye derop advice...that makes sense...I thought I'd have to make up drops several times a day! :) I really appreciate your help!
I hope you continue to improve :)
Shelbo