My pcp would not treat a "normal" tsh of 4.5

My new doc would treat any tsh over 2.5 and said that I needed to be on Thyroid 15 years ago.

Just wondering what your docs think.

Spacee

I went 10 yrs mis-diagnosed with a "normal" thyroid. Been on Armour since 2001 thanks to my osteopath who started me on it without bloodwork. jam

Get them done and see how they are doing too.

New TSH guidelines out now talks about keeping the TSH under 2.0 to feel best at. However, TSH is a pituatary hormone and not a thyroid hormone. That's why tests with the Free Ts are better. Post the Free Ts results with it's ranges and we'll try to help you. I try to keep my Free Ts mid ranges to feel my best at.

Take care... :-)

My Endo is terrible. Only treats by labs even though I have Hashi's and CFS. The only reason I was referred to him was because he's good at finding cancer, supposedly. I think Armour would help me BIG TIME, but can't find anyone that will treat when under 5.0. I am consistently between 3.5 and 4 now that I self-treat. So I'm better but I'm sure I could use a little more help. Some days I feel 'unplugged'.

Thyroid Power New Thyroid Testing Guidelines.

Take care... :-)

I have Certainly found Many endos feel that you feel your best with a TSH of 1.0 or less

Most any one will agree that any thing Over 2.0 is definite for Hypo
Have you had a TPO test I would advise you get that at next blood draw that will let you know if you test positive for Hashimotos

i have that and with active antibodies it is a constant adjust ment on meds

M6 doc has mee doing Labs every 3 months he also Listens to how I feel not just reliying on the numbers

I have alsways said that if you are once on thyroid replacement
you will always be on thyroid replace ment
I think some of the docs need to get with the program

Jua My thoughts Hope this helps
Shep

Lots of interesting info.

Gosh, I knew some of my labs were MIA so I searched and came up with some more.

TPO) (Thyroid Perxidase) was <10 In range

Antithyrodglobulin was <20 In range

Reverse T3 383 High

Free T4 1.29 In range Although a year later dropped to 1.07

Triiodothyronine, free, Serum 2.7 in range.

Glad I found these, will include with my Rheumy appt. He might not be interested or might.

Spacee

A very long time ago, my test resultsm plus a goiter and other physical signs showed I had hypothryoidism. Since then, I get a physical check, but I also get blood work tests done and with the Synthroid it keeps me in the normal range.

[This Message was Edited on 11/24/2008]

puts so many of his patients on a trial of Armour and has them come back in a couple week to report to him. These are people complaining of depression, fatigue, and more issues and have the so-called "normal" labs. To find a doc who works with Armour is a great blessing to our health.

If it were me, I would consider taking a small dosed beta blocker to help with the higher T3. Symptoms can include: anxiety, panic attacks, fatigue, higher heart rate, etc.

Such symptoms can be from something that is called T3 Thyrotoxicosis which means only the T3 goes high and one can have a normal Free T4 and TSH.

I have a T3 Thyrotoxicosis and I take small doses of beta blocker to help with this problem. I was able to go a year without any beta blockers until I decided to try a multivitamin which contained Copper. I also began with a Progesterone cream which can raise the Estrogen levels as well as the Progesterone. By raising the Estrogen it also raised my Copper levels which raised the T3. I had to avoid Soy as well. I had anxiety and panic attacks as well. These are all connected.

I had to go back to using a multivitamin that does not contain any Copper, Iodine and Iron. I supplement with Iron on the side. I gave up the Progesterone cream as well as Soy. I will be having the T3 as well as the other thyroid levels checked soon. However, it's been six weeks since I gave up all these things that made things worst for me and I feel so much better!

Take care... :-)

I am on a beta blocker..have been for 20 years for tachycardia. So that is kinda between a rock and a hard place.

I have been on 15 grains of Armour for a month. I like it a lot so far. Have an appt with doc to review it in after Christmas. He is a really, caring person. A D0. I am glad a friend recommended him.

Spacee

SHOP for a good GP. Forget the endo. Depending on when they went to medical school they can be totally useless for thyroid folks. Go to About.com and Mary Shoman's site. Find a top doc in your area. Newer docs and really old ones have the best education for thyroid and adrenal problems. Those educated in the 60's and 70's and refuse to continue their educations (90% according to the research) will do you little good. Be an advocate for your own health. Remember...YOU are paying THEM to help you.

Cheryl

You said you are on 15 grains of Armour? That is a lot of Armour. I have read that the average Thyroidless person is on 3-5 grains. It's taken me over a year to get up to 3.5 grains. I also take Compounded, Time Released, Hyrdocortisone-15 mg., Iodoral (iodine), Feosol (Carbonyl Iron), and ConcenTrace Liquid Minerals. A lot of other supplements, but those I take specifically for Thyroid.

[This Message was Edited on 12/25/2008]

My DO says to "start low, go slow" so I am at the lowest. I will have it retested in about 2 weeks and sure I will be bumped up to the next level.

Also, the one who had the sites for good docs....THANK YOU for that. I will go there and take a look!

Spacee

My doctor has always prescribed based on my TSH tests. And I was always exhausted - sometimes to the point of losing consciousness.

A month ago I asked her if I could take Armour and she agreed. I don't know what a grain is, but I take 45 mg. daily - very early in the morning so nothing interferes with its absorption. I feel better, not great, and my TSH test came back "perfect". If I increase the dosage to 60 mg., I get anxious and nervous.

I had recently started taking ritalin 5mg three times a day. It is the only thing that keeps me awake during the day. This start low and go slow as far as the thyroid med could take a year, if you ask me.

It feels so wonderful to be 'awake". I feel for you.

Spacee

I've had my TSH tested about 5 times in the last 4 years because I can never lose a lb for one thing. I am not overweight, but just had some other 'feelings' as well that were/hard to discern between Fibro and possible thyroid problems. Then I started losing my hair like crazy, handfuls in the shower.

My TSH is 1.0 - obviously on the very good end.

Recently saw a psychiatrist for the first time, just to check my meds etc. (also have a friend who swears by hers so I thought what the heck)..well this guy also has several articles published about Thyroid issues and depression etc.

My T4 is off, so he thinks bringing it to the 50th percentile is what we should do. My second visit he asked me a bunch of questions and I have almost all of the symptoms of hypothyroidism except for the labs to show for it. He upped my meds.

I asked him if you could really be hypo-t if your labs are 'normal' and he said, it depends on who you ask. He said most endos will tell you NO.


Now I do have a question for you experts out there. If my TSH is already at 1.0, I mean how low can it go - into the negative???? with this medication? All of the sudden I'm thinking, will I gain weight or lose? I'm starting to confuse myself about all of the numbers and the direction.
Could be brain fog? LOL

Thoughts?

TSH is influenced by T4 levels. T4 is your longer term, less active, form of thyroid hormone. Your body converts T4 into T3, which is your shorter lasting, but ACTIVE form of thyroid hormone. Your body can also convert your T4 into Reverse T3, which basically puts the brakes on metabolically, and renders T3 less effective.

So, measuring the TSH, is only an indicator of T4 levels. The Free T3 and Free T4 is more helpful in determining hormone status. I would say, getting to the upper range of each is best, but dosing according to symptoms is more important than a lab number.

Armour, Westhroid and Naturethroid contain BOTH T4 and T3. Synthroid contains ONLY T4. This may be adequate for people whose body can efficiently convert T4 to T3, but not everyone can. And some also convert to Reverse T3. Without all these tests, you don't know. Then there are also Thyroid antiboidies, which throws a monkey wrench in the whole thing.

NOT being able to tolerate normal doses of Thyroid hormones, can sometimes reveal an actual Cortisol deficiency. Thyroid hormones does NOT CAUSE Cortisol deficiency, but it can UNMASK one. Your cells need ADEQUATE Cortisol, in order to be able to use Thyroid hormones. Not having enough Cortisol can cause the T3 levels to rise, causing high amounts of thyroid hormones to build in the blood, making your free T3 and/or free T4 labs look high in range with continuing hypo symptoms, or causing hyper-like symptoms on doses of Armour which shouldn’t produce those symptoms. The latter can include anxiety or nervousness, light-headedness, shakiness, dizziness, racing heart, sudden weakness, nausea, feeling hot, or any symptom which seems like an over-reaction to Armour, but are in reality low cortisol symptoms. Low cortisol can also keep you hypothyroid with hypo symptoms.


Can you really be HYPOthyroid if your labs are NORMAL? YES. My Thyroid levels were "Normal" for 10-20 years. Had a Goiter growing, which was "being watched". Given Synthyroid and it continuted to grow, and "be watched". Eventually they watched it grow large enough to cause Trachael Obstruction. I literally couldn't breath. It grew to the size of a small Orange. (mine also grew below the collar bone so it couldn't be "watched" properly.) I also stopped getting my Period in my 30's. Had the right lobe removed it 1994.

I had an Accurpuncturist, he was also a Neurologist, and Psychiatrist, switch me to Armour, on HIS advice. My periods immediately resumed after being absent for 2 years. I continued to be treated by the TSH and my goiter again grew and had a Total Thyroidectomy Nov. 2007 due to the same thing, Trachael Obstruction.

If you have been Hypothyroid for a long time, the adrenal are also likely exhaused, and may need supplemental Cortisol for a period of time, or maybe indefinately. You also need companion nutrients to make Thyroid hormones, Iodine, Iron (check Ferretin levels), Potassium, Sodium, Zinc, Selenium and Tyrosine.

I am 14 months without a Thyroid and life has been hell. I don't recommend this to anyone. I am still working to raise my levels, of, well, EVERyTHING.

The best sites I have seen are StopTheThyroidMadness and Yahoos Thyyroidless forum. Those people will hold your hand and guide you.

Good luck with this Endocrine nightmare.





[This Message was Edited on 01/19/2009]

You have been through so much. You have learned a lot about the nutrients. I had been using one of the kosher salts that didn't have iodine...then, duh, remembered it was a nec. nutrient and got the salt with it.

My son's good friend at college, is late getting back because of having his Thyroid removed because of a malignant growth. The doc told him that he would be fine and just have to take a pill the rest of his life. I wish it were that easy.

My adrenal's are low but, yet, within normal so the doc won't do anything. Yet, he is willing to rx ritalin so I can stay awake during the day. (rolling my eyes).

Thanks for your info.

Spacee

You already know my doctor doesn't do that, WHEW, though it required a fair amount of persistence to convince him to 'trial' me on a teensy dose of Armour in addition to the compounded T3 which had NOT been helping me for, oh, three years, regardless of continually increasing the dose. <sigh>

Fortunately, I did great on the Armour and now there's no problem asking for it to be tweaked if I need it. Recently he asked if I thought I needed an increase in my mid-day dose; I'm not sure I do but accepted the Rx since I have a pill splitter, lol. At least that way I've got extra on hand if necessary.

I've got a pretty cooperative pharmacist, as well, if I ask for my two 60mg doses to appear in the bottle as four 30mg doses, voila, as if by magic, they do. I'm not suggesting everybody start doing their own 'tweaking' of Armour or any other meds, I've just learned what works for me. For example, if my skin abruptly gets dry all over and doesn't resolve, I need a little more Armour for a few days to a week or so, then taper back down accordingly. Very minor adjustments can make all the difference.

LOL, I had to laugh about your doc's willingness to rx ritalin knowing your adrenals are in the low range. DUH. I was surprised to discover how much less Cortef I needed once my Armour dose was sufficient. Big difference, half of previous on a slow and cautious taper.

For anyone who's interested, here's the link from the StopTheThyroidMadness for help finding a doc to rx Armour and hopefully work with patients with adrenal issues.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/how-to-find-a-good-doc/

Take care,
grammy27

Fortunately, my endocrinologist thinks using the TSH result to treat is a joke.

He goes by various other test in the complete thyroid panel.

My PCP is great sent me to endo. She was ok, not great. Found new Endo nearer tohouse, he said he listens to how the patient is feeling and the symptoms they report. Upped my synthorid to .075mcg. Still not right yet, go back next month and he will recheck. Almost there though. Symptoms seem less degree wise. Where I was a 9 I feel more 6/7. Also, have enlarged thyroid with nodules. When I saw this Endo the first time first words out of his mouth were did anyone ever discuss Hashimoto's I said what, no. So, that is what I have been researching.

I am thrilled that he not only uses blood work results, but, more important listens to me and how I am feeling.

realthyroidhelp.com and since being on that board for the last month I've upped my own Armour from 1.5 grains to 3 grains over a month's time.

I take 90 mg first thing in the a, then 45 mg at about noon, then 45 mg between 4-5PM.

I'm feeling better and my basal temp is even hitting 98+ which has been a rare thing in recent years.

I'll see my doc soon and hopefully she'll agree with what I'm doing.

I plan to stay at the 3 grains for a while. A lot of people on the above board have best results at 3 to 5 grains.

I do have Hashi's too.

space: How much Armour are you on???

That is what my PCP goes by will not even consider any othe test but he does have me on Armour Thyroid

and know that there were NO labs before mid 70's...

The "older school" docs go by how a person feels vs numbers. We are not a number. jam