Following are YouTube highlights of statements, debates, Q&As, presentations from the XMRV & Contamination segment of the NIH’s ‘chronic fatigue syndrome’ ME/CFS) State of the Knowledge workshop held in Bethesda, Maryland, April 7&8. Video, audio, and English subtitles.
(To view other segments of the conference, go to Vikki Walker's YouTube channel, which kindly uploaded the following for public access.) Note also, Dr. David Bell will summarize take-away points from this conference and other new research on Saturday, April 16 in Boston.
Discussion (Part 1) on XMRV and Contamination (Drs. John Coffin, Judy Mikovits, Nancy Klimas)
Discussion (Part 2) on XMRV and contamination (Drs. John Coffin, Judy Mikovits, Nancy Klimas)
Judy Mikovits takes questions on research discrepancies
Drs. Judy Mikovits & John Coffin exchange on lab contamination issue Coffin’s final statement: He sees research “leaving XMRV,” though maybe some other retrovirus might be involved.
Dr. Nancy Klimas commenting on need for subset/gender studies & funding
John Coffin – (who suggests XMRV findings reflect contamination)
Dr. Leonard Jason (parts 1-4) on the crucial diagnostic issue - use of different diagnostic criteria & case definitions for ME/CFS & the issues this has created for research purposes. He says he's convinced there are subsets. And on the need for tracking patients long term, he says he has to dodge that issue for now, owing to "a mortality paper that we haven't published yet."
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Argument Strategy
As a patient with CFS, seeing these segments angers me. Debating case criterion was brought up years and years ago and here we are debating it again...wasting time.There is no controversy. Controversy is being manufactured for some purpose...wasting time. Perfectionism is the ultimate method to discredit someone's point of view...wasting time. Declarations of doing things contrary to what one is actually doing, while one is actually doing it, is a great flummoxing strategy in debate...wasting time. Being unconvinceable and unmovable by any evidence isn't science it is a debate technique and the master debater in these clips showed what years of Bill O'Reily and Rush Limbaugh training have created for the millions of people like me...wasting time on issues that don't matter. What matters is funding research that matters, not wasting time on things like the endless accusations of mental health causation and the amazing power of CBT to solve our problems. I believe what comes around, goes around and all the master debaters out there who are wasting our collective time right now will have to live with themselves when the bullshit-bubble finally bursts. We will remember your names and await your apologies.
The best way to proff someone is wrong (or not) is to put-all-you-got in doing it better, not going in with plenty of money, but only half the effort. It's like trying to proof door number 1 doesn't open by going in door number 2.
Are you CONVINCED that Mikovits is wrong? THEN, DO EXACTLY WHAT SHE DID OR TEN TIMES AS MUCH, or are you afraid of finding something you don't want to find?
To me, there's too much blabbering and no serious researching. We are not scientists (at least, I'm not) but my brain works enough to tell me you can't proof something doesn't work if you do it different. Please try door number 1 the right way to see if it really works or not!!! They are just insulting our intelligence!
I agree with you
Posted by: elipoarch Apr 10, 2011
20
The best way to proff someone is wrong (or not) is to put-all-you-got in doing it better, not going in with plenty of money, but only half the effort. It's like trying to proof door number 1 doesn't open by going in door number 2.
Are you CONVINCED that Mikovits is wrong? THEN, DO EXACTLY WHAT SHE DID OR TEN TIMES AS MUCH, or are you afraid of finding something you don't want to find?
To me, there's too much blabbering and no serious researching. We are not scientists (at least, I'm not) but my brain works enough to tell me you can't proof something doesn't work if you do it different. Please try door number 1 the right way to see if it really works or not!!! They are just insulting our intelligence!
Paradigm Shift
Posted by: Juloo Apr 14, 2011
Was this review helpful? 26
To some degree, these videos are an excellent front-seat view of the very definition of Thomas Kuhn's 'paradigm shift' as he describes in 'The Structure of Scientific Revolutions', pub. 1962. For a very long time, the common view of much of science (and therefore, the medical profession) has been that chronic fatigue is not an illness in our bodies but in our heads. First, a very, very few brave researchers/MDs put forth a different perspective. For this, they were ridiculed and nearly crucified professionally. Now, more researchers are coming forth with information supporting this new viewpoint...and you can see the wagons being circled by those who have defended the old party line and built their reputations upon it.
In ten, maybe twenty years -- too late for some of us, perhaps in time for some of us -- you will not be able to find a health care professional who admits ever having believed anything BUT that this illness is not mental but PHYSICAL. This is frustrating to watch, but the very fact that we are at this stage is a sign that the shift is beginning to gain momentum.
We will attain our paradigm shift.
I would be very surprised if there were apologies coming. Scientists (who are supposed to keep open minds)and doctors (who are supposed to treat patients, not tests - and above all, do no harm!)are human. It's human nature to dig in when a particularly dear viewpoint is challenged. After all, dogs are most vicious when cornered. If (when!) the growing weight of research reaches critical mass, thus forcing these professions to accept reality, there will be some who will go to the grave resenting it. To paraphrase: A mind that's changed against its will is of its first opinion still.
